& How? fill the bucket with white vinegar connect the hoses plug in the pump and let the vinegar run threw the heater for 2 hours do this for a couple of hours once a year or more often if you have lot of lime in the water (Hard water). If you elect to use a deliming chemical in your hot water tankbe sure to follow the manufacturer's instructions, including these general steps: Delimer disposal note: if the delimer is draining into a sump pit be sure to run enough water to cycle the sump pump several times to flush that component out as well - leaving acid and debris from the hot water cleanout in the sump pump could damage it. Our photo (left) shows a small electric water heater with two heating electrodes - one is located behind each of the dark access panels on the front of the heater. It would take a HUGE volume of Vinegar to do the job. My wife has skin problems but clothes last longer, food tastes better and your car has less spots when washed with soft water. Rinnai will void any warranty If you use anything but white vinegar. Citric acid has the benefits of being a solid (so storage is easier), of being inherently safer than concentrated acetic acid (though its pretty much a wash if youre using vinegar), and of being an excellent chelator, which makes it a more efficient descaler. Fill the container with the right amount of water before adding the acid. Can you clean a hot water tank with hydrochloric acid. The buildup had gotten as high as the lower heater element and was burning them out quickly. Vineger is only good on calcium. Thats why hardware stores sell it. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. How to de-scale a water heater, hot water geyser, water cylinder, etc: This article describes in complete detail the steps in the procedure to remove scale or lime from a hot water heater tank - hot water heater de-scaling or de-liming procedural steps. Citric is the better choice if it works, but phosphoric is commonly used as well. I just do what most folks in Midland do . I have a small leak in my water heater. At this point there is no practical way to remove the deposits. Do not modify or remove relief valves, chimney connections, draft hoods, etc. Your asking for trouble with the acid..All one home owner has to do is see it. No way would I use nitric or sulfuric acids. Tools for Managing Home-Building Financials, Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout, Podcast 481: Detailing a Slab, High-Performance Water Heaters, and DIY Dense-Pack, Podcast 480: PRO TALK With Painter-Remodelers Miquel and David McCarley, Industry-First Cordless Rebar Cutter and Bender, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Pretty Good House Book Excerpt: Copper Farmhouse, 10 Dos and Don'ts for Electric In-Floor Heat, Framing Stairs to an Out-of-Level Landing, Good-Looking and Long-Lasting Traditional Gutters, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: William B. Because of this I've chosen to use muriatic acid. I grew up in Midland and still live nearby. He used a product called Sizzle for tank and line cleaning. Production manager Ian Schwandt explains how financial tools such as QuickBooks or Buildertrend can help companies track project costs for a healthy outcome. Now or the next time you replace the heater install a softner and this should prevent that from happening to the new one. Smith Water Products Company - hotwater.com/lit/training/4800r9.pdf 800-433-2545 - 01/07/2009. How will you get the scale off the elements? Howre you gonna get the elements out, then back in? As far as warranties go, many warranties are voided if proper maintenance has not been done. Sell them a tank heater less maintence Noritz recommends the power to be kept on, but the gas turned off while flushing. No math, no measuringjust a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing. I burn out a bottom element about once a year. But we have been informed by some plumbers that using acids to clean a tankless coil leave the coil internal surfaces etched and that the result can be faster scale formation than previously. Citric is the better choice if it works, but phosphoric is commonly used as well. Purdue's chart shows the number of pounds of lime deposited per year as a function of the water usage in gallons per day, with an assumed 10 grains of water hardness. We might be able to do something about it. I use flow aide, have been for years, one bottle, one gallon. Before you begin any project with this multipurpose substance, read on, first for guidance in using it safely, and then for its range of practical applications around the house. A friend retired from AO Smith. Maybe you invented something! Are you sure the metal its made of can handle such a cleaning? Currently there are products such as UN-Lime (a professional non-muriatic food-grade phosphoric acid based chemical de-limer intended for removing scale from water heaters, recommended by A.O. 4930 Motorized Deliming Pump Kit, Rheem Electric Water Heater "Owners Guide and Installation Instructions", (Australian models) rheem.com. We still have very hard water. The first step in curing water heater noises or poor hot water quantity is to turn off and flush out the water heater. I'm fairly adept at doing my ownhome repairs but Hello everyone. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. Never pour muriatic acid into an empty vessel. I think the safety of any cleaning chemicals depends on volume and concentration; If I were using a cleaner in a water heater or geyser tank I'd prefer not to send such waste into a septic system, and it shouldn't be necessary. Depending on which tankless you are flushing, you need to know how to get the bypass valve open or you will only flush the bypass line and miss the exchanger, this is why noritz stays on with gas off, and why Rinnai gets lowered to 98 degrees and run for a minute then the power pulled on it. I've worked with HCL in plating and stripping but it still scares the bejeebers out of me. Hydrochloric should be right out unless you know that there is compatibility with the materials (which isnt very likely, as HCl is very aggressive to many materials). We explain why it is important to remove the scale from a hot water heater. Electric water heaters use one or two electrodes inserted into the bottom and top of the hot water tank. Or use the SEARCH BOX found below to Ask a Question or Search InspectApedia. It needs to at least be NSF 61 rated to cover your a$$ legally. https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Water_Heater_Scale_Removal.php After draining the heater a month ago and breaking up the deposits with a coat hanger to get the water to drain out of the spigot , we bought a new bottom element and replaced it. Be the business owner you would want to work for and be the employee you would want to hire and together you can be the company people turn to when they need a great plumber. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. Homeowners should never reach for muriatic acid lightly. HCl is actually fairly benign to tissue, at least in comparison to nitric and sulfuric acids. I doubt a water heater would last all that long with a broken liner. But youre going to need more of it and the smell is unpleasant. There's really little to fear from using HCL if you are careful. If you have a sump in the basement, that mix will eventually find its way to a watershed. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. A.O. When the acid gets exhausted, ill Start a new batch dumping the Citrix acid waste into a household drain. The owners manual diagnoses mineral deposits in the bottom of the tank and suggests draining it regularly. By Bob Vila | Updated Apr 13, 2021 9:59 AM. On 2015-10-05 Several years ago I discovered that 75% phosphoric acid works just as well but wasn't nearly a caustic and was somewhat safer than HCI. The apparatus must be designed to let the scale particles and gases escape. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It's like a permanent 'to-do' item. A barrel of HCl runs almost $1,500. But Im wondering if they cant simply be cleaned with hydrochloric acid? Well, what do you know, I just checked, and you can get the concentrated stuff at the hardware store. Rose, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Thanks. In Krappe's 1940 experiments muriatic acid (HCL) and hexametaphosphate solution were discussed for non-mechanical efforts to reduce or dissolve scale in piping, tankless coils, side-arm heaters, water heaters. Hey, if acid flushes work for boilers, why not water heaters. Come join the discussion about the industry, safety, finishing, tools, machinery, projects, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! as you may create dangerous conditions. I am scheduled to flush a tankless on Monday, it has not been flushed since it was installed approximately 4 yrs ago. Muriatic acid must be diluted in water. containers) or possibly other acid-based products that can dissolve mineral or lime deposits in a hot water tank.Our opinion (feedback is invited) is that using a de-scaling chemical other than one intended for water heaters or other than one specifically recommended by the water heater manufacturer would be a potentially dangerous approach for a water heater for several reasons: We suggest suggest dislodging as much water heater tank bottom crud as possible, but also taking a gentle approach so as to avoid even the slightest possibility of damage to the tank. Sounds good anyway, As far as the AO Smith guy..Fiber Glass is not all that easily broken. If 3 years of use created the situation this would indicate water that is quite hard. Expert advice from Bob Vila, the most trusted name in home improvement, home remodeling, home repair, and DIY. Sure. I call it flushing because I leave the cold water on to the heater while draining. A fellow once suggested I take the original drain valve off and replace it with a brass ball valve, but when I look at that original valve it's made of cheap, fairly soft plastic and I'm not sure I could even get it unscrewed without potential damage, so I haven't done that yet. What are some possible solutions? My favorite autocorrect so far this year. Will they sell that to households in Great Britain? The author reported that when the zinc coating is removed by acid (older galvanized steel water heating equipment and tanks), rusty water problems were likely. Can always add some baking soda to the waste. The building had to be evacuated for over an hour. Pump choice is big. Ive just watched this video about hot water tanks being cut open. At Apologies for the delay. indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of. You can get 25 litres of 36% HCl (not something you want to keep inside the house!) The chemicals might very well damage the insulation on them. If your hardness is that bad, you should consider a water softener. As to hooking up, I would put the diluted acid in 55 gallon drum, use a submersible pump and run the acid into the heater and take the outlet back to the drum. /UNLIME Specific Deliming Instructions for use with Up-N-Down Transfer Instead, call your local recycling center, as they will be best equipped to walk you through the proper steps for disposing of muriatic acid. Continue readingat WATER HEATER SCALE PREVENTION or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX. @neal, Can you identify Loud Dishwasher drain noise from airgap? Our well water is very hard, but tastes great. Copyright 2022 Acton Media Inc. All rights reserved. Questions & answers or comments about scale and lime formation in water heaters. Generally, I will 'flush' tanks. I looked on the internet and could find no mention about anyone else ever having done this. Turn off all electrical and or gas powerto the water heater and let it cool.This means turning off electricity that controls the water heater oil burner or electric heating elements, or for gas fired water heaters, turning off the gas supply to the device. Bob Vila, 11 Ways to Make the Most of Your Towns Curbside Cleanup Day, 50 Things Every Homeowner Should Know How to Do, The Dos and Don'ts of Air-Drying Everything You Own, 11 Packing Tips & Tricks for a Smooth Move. If using muriatic acid on large surface areas, it will need to be applied with a plastic sprayer. Controlled by a thermostat that senses water temperature inside the hot water tank, the electrodes are turned on to heat water inside the water tank. I'm still wondering how you got the HCL into the tank. Can you rinse it out thoroughly enough to be safe? It can work as we have cleaned boilers with the stuff. You'll hear the difference and see the sediment come out when you do this. I'll try CLR or Lime-Away white vinegar is all ya need, scrap the rest. See LIME OUT / Lime Out Extra, lime remover MSDS, [PDF] a Summit Brands product. Additional tips on draining a water heater tank can be found. I have a question: what is the average lifespan of a water heater? The older tanks are replete with scale (inches thick) and the younger tanks have a bit too. Elements are cheap. A.O. Other products are available from your plumbing supplier. Pounds of lime deposited vs. temperature and hot water usage: see Purdue Bulletin #74 (also provided by A.O. ill Start a new batch dumping the Citrix acid waste into a household drain. Also note that in the US, if the waste is only too acidic or basic and does not contain another classification of hazardous waste or otherwise violate a limit (heavy metals, for example), it is generally permissible to alter the pH to the acceptable range (5-9 is the general rule of thumb, though specifics may vary) and dispose of it as non-hazardous waste. Can you safely dilute muriatic acid (thats the name hardware stores use?) I've never tried it. Note that you might be generating hazardous waste due to the resulting pH, which will need to be handled and disposed of properly according to your jurisdiction. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Check with the Manufacturer to find the best one for the job, and what descaled to use. The "seashells" get so packed in the bottom that it takes about 6 hours to drain the tank. I have a six year old GE GG40T6XA natural gas, 62 gallon water heater. You turn the power and gas off close the hot water out value and the cold in value. Always store muriatic acid in the container it came in. I had a bath of similar strength HCl in my garage for a project, and forgot about the project for a bit. Instead, consider it a last resort when less toxic products fail to do the trick in cleaning, prepping, deoxidizing, or removing mold from masonry, concrete, metal, and swimming pools. Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum. Work with a hose or large container of water nearby to wash skin in case of accidental splashing. Smith, available in 1 gal. Smith's Form No. And where will you put the rinses? Get free, no-commitment project estimates from concrete, brick, and stone experts in your local area. Smith's Form No. You remove the element because its metal and will be preferentially attacked. Yes you can use lime or de-scaling treatments; do your solar geyser manufacturer or instructions say otherwise? Find licensed service professionals in your area and get free, no-commitment estimates for your project. We now have the upper element (HD only had one a month ago) and before I put it in I did some research and saw this suggestion online. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners. I can confidently The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. Albert Einstein. I have to think muriatic acid would work better, but I don't know if it would be a health problem. While this powerful chemical agent runs cheapabout $10 a gallon at home centers, hardware stores, and even on Amazonits still very caustic stuff, capable of corroding everything from some plastics and metals to clothing and skin. - M.K. Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with, Find all threads started by amazingflapjack. Anything I can pour into water heater that will dissolve deposits? To de-scale or de-lime your hot water heater, see WATER HEATER SCALE DE-LIMING PROCEDURE Contrary to some replies, I'd stick with either a 'weak acid' like CLR or Lime Away, or a specialized product sold just for the purpose. Contact your local recycling center for instructions on. After treatment, flush with bleach 2 times then flush with water at least 4 times before having the WH placed back into service. Be sure the water heater pressure and temperature relief valve is properly installed and is the proper type. Readers should also see our discussion of mineral clogging of water piping, water heaters, and tankless coils, organized I wouldn't use muratic acid. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. For smaller projects (like the coffeemaker) where the cost of the cleaner is not a big concern, sulfamic acid works great. 8 Why? Good way to stick a check valve, among other annoyances. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. With today's laundry detergents, you don't need extremely hot water for your washing machine. The same corrosion that has filled your tank has probably destroyed this important safety device. I order concentrated acids for work, but Im pretty sure its one of the things that if I changed the shipping address to my home it would raise red flags (not that Ive ever tried.). 900 gpm?! Reconnect the flexible lines, turn the water on, and let the tank flush with the bottom valve open. The message: don't over-do it: more and longer is not necessarily "better". I think it would be a bad idea to put it in the water heater. When making a dilution, slowly and carefully pour the acid into the water. Using a wet vac with a small hose adapted to the end you can clean out the scale on the bottom. Where do you drain the acid/water mix?